ilvl 714 QQ Disc and pally handing my rear end to me on alt night….

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    • #1163

      I know…. AMR isn’t as good as WL, but every time I try to run my own logs my computer yells at me, and this is what was available :P. This requires a bit of explanation…

      This is alt run night, and its a carefree, fun night, supposedly, and all of a sudden someone invites a 720 disc and pally healer to the group, QQ. I also may or may not have downed a bottle of wine in the process of whining at the disc priest for trolling me all night :P. Note- I only healed IR > Gore, and I think I was cheesy food buffed and no runes >_<.

      I guess my question really is…. is there anything else I could have done to compete!? There was nothing to heal until they left for Gorefiend :P.

      Maybe I should get real logs tomorrow. We are working on our 2nd H Arch kill for the guild. TBC….. 🙂 <3

    • #1164

      Yeah it doesn’t look good, will try to give it a look, but I am far from familiar with AMR logs. Although it is very clear to me that you overextended on the healer front… F*** me I would die if I were sitting on 60-74% overhealing, would be surprised if you hadn’t been drinking to hold back tears! 🙂

      EDIT: Okay this might be harder than I first assumed… I don’t seem to be able to find out how many casts you’ve made of certain spells (HTT, Ascendance, SLT, HST). Might just be me being a noob at this site xD.

    • #1166

      Yeah I totally get it. I’ve had a really hard time adjusting to AMR as well. Tonight I will ask someone doing logs to also post to WL as well. We are working on H Arch, and have only downed it once as a guild. I’m always one of the healers in the banish group, and when I come back I’ve usually missed something super exciting >_>. We do have a Disc and a Pally but they are my same ilvl at least :P. And they let me use the ring since we have no druid atm (unless we pug one). 😀

    • #1167

      Ok – just did H Arch RQ:

      I know I cast chain heal a couple times on targets that already had riptide, and I let ES fall off a couple times. But anyway… I didn’t really look them over yet cuz I have to run, but I’ll check them over before I come see what you have to tell me :).

      Recount had me first then the actual logs came back and I Was 3rd /qq. 😛


    • #1169

      Oh thank god! Will get right to it 🙂

      Okay basic uptime of Riptide/HST/EB. Riptide looks fair with a use every ~6.85 seconds, improvements to this would be small. HST looks fine as well, not too much downtime (~4 seconds on average) but getting the last seconds is hard to do. Elemental Blast could be used more, but this really depends on whether you desperately need the additional mana this would benefit you (not being said that the throughput stats are useless).

      Mana usage looks okay, still not hitting rock bottom when boss dies. That being said I can’t see you used a mana pot, thus you could just have used an intellect pot to boost throughput somewhere.

      Cooldowns, well using major cooldowns once over the course of an 8 minute fight is, at least in my opinion, something that could be improved. Not only will it increase the numbers you put out, but having a CD firing away healing will also save the healers mana. The one Ascendance that you did use had 64% overhealing as well.

      Unleash Life looks great, although you popped it twice in succession, it is a minor thing though, but using it unintentionally is something to avoid. You could go Ancestral Swiftness and that would just completely eliminate that risk. Personally I also see it (AS) as superior to Echo on Archimonde, simply because finding proper situations to pop SLT rarely happens. :p
      Spiritwalker’s Grace used 2 times, could be used more, but then again no reason to pop it when you’re not in dire need of it, although having more uses of it will improve overall uptime and it will directly affect numbers.

      A big issue for shamans losing value on logs is because we’re not accounted for the healing SLT does. I can see the reasoning for not counting it in, because it just ‘relocates’ health of players, but it still feels like cheating when it isn’t accounted for. The 1 million SLT did would bring you on top.

      Regarding ring, shamans and druids are also the healers that have the strongest potential with ring of all healers. Would be silly to make any other than those two classes use it, if it isn’t for them to show their Epeen.

      Oh and the Riptide applied by 4p has a different ID than the one you apply yourself. This means that you can have 2 Riptides running on the same player, so determining whether or not it is the right riptide will be hard.

      Still looks like there is a tad of overhealing going out, most spells sitting at ~35+% is just not optimal, cutting the monk would probably have been in your favor.

      Hope you can use any of this, it is only minor things tbh.

    • #1173

      Thanks Keehn :).

      And yes I hate when I don’t get to use my HTT earlier on in the fight, but there really wasn’t much damage going out. The disc priest likes to troll me and pop bubble on my SLT too sometimes, which is funny when its not progression :P. We jokingly gripe when we see a huge shield on someone in raid, and call him a *ock blocker :P. We have fun fighting for first place :P.

      And the riptide, I have the 4pc spell ID set to show up on my raid frames so I see who has it already on them. In general I try never to target someone with RT hot for chain heal but sometimes the only people taking damage all have RT on them already :P.

      And the monk was my hubby – we brought him to get his achievement – he doesn’t know the fight very well and he stood next to a banish portal pool and got his face eaten by a shade :P. We made sure to tease him for it :P.

      Overall that was by far our smoothest kill on that, and I really felt like I was bored half the time with not enough to heal. Usually there is a lot more damage going out and the last phase lasts a little longer, and I would have used more mana. And you are totally right, I really should manage pot use better and missed an opportunity for intel pot somewhere in there.

      Thanks so much for your time and your feedback!!! 😀

    • #1174

      You’re welcome, just happy that I can be of help 🙂

    • #1926

      Soooo, we have started in on Mythic Gorefiend, and I’ve started picking through my logs again to see what I can do to improve…. We did farm for so long over the holidays it seems I’ve picked up some bad/lazy habits.

      Rather than come bug you every five minutes to haaalp meh, I thought I should be figuring it out on my own. So just to run by, how and what you are checking, and see if I am doing it right….

      To check healing stream totem, you are taking the length of fight in minutes and dividing it but the 30 sec cd on hst to see how many times I should have dropped it, correct? Further into that….. So, if its coming up right before I get shadow of death, should I be dropping it on the outside before I go down if they are taking heavy damage (like an essence is up), or drop it down there? Will it still do its thing up there when I go down in the stomach? Our last week’s best attempt the encounter lasted 5 min and 47 sec, and I casted hst only 8 times (170 hits), and it seems I could have dropped it a whole 3 more times.

      My healing surge is out of control, and I never used greater heal at all haha. I did terrible on elemental blast, and I think I felt like I was running around like a chicken with my head cut off the whole time, not to mention, no one was calling out when they dropped their souls away from the designated location, so I was watching for that and calling it out for our designated soul “getters” :P, amongst other stuff I was calling out.
      I think I did fine on RT, although that’s reasonable to cast on the move so I’d probably find that convenient to get out a lot.

      Another question…….. more about general strat; Someone in our group who has killed it with another guild with his “main” had set it up so that healers are cleansing their debuff first during feast, then after everyone else clears theirs to have the healers go out again and soak the rest. I was flustered with this because I was on the first set of healing CD’s for feast, and I can literally hold the first 30 sec of feast with my cd’s alone, and its annoying to run out and grab the debuff cleanse in the middle of that, so I moved myself to the end of the clear list and then just stayed out to soak the rest. Who do you have clearing the rest of the debuffs after raid is all clear? I felt, half the time, that I really felt torn between stopping to heal, and grabbing the next debuff because raid got very low at the end of the feast. And yes, better use of SWG would be nice… I completely failed at using that most of the night for some weird reason. I blame playing a lot of alts lately throwing me off my game :P.

      Anyway… here’s the logs…. Maybe I should have started a new thread…. oh well 😛 (I was looking at our longest attempt to pull info)

      I’d really like to be able to pick them apart better myself, so if you don’t mind helping figure how you pulled the details, I’d be super appreciative :).
      IT would be so much easier in a real conversation… this wall of text is painful… Sorry! lol

    • #1928

      Ok, here are new ones from tonight….. Tried to do better with pots and movement stuffs…

    • #1971

      Hey Rainlily 😀

      For the healing stream thing, yes you take the encounter duration in seconds and divide it by the times you actually casted HST. This will give you the average time in between every HST cast you’ve made, and it should ideally be ~30 seconds. It is also fine to figure out the theoretical maximum of casts, by taking the duration of the fight and dividing it by the cooldown of the spell, then you compare it to how many casts you did (like you mentioned). You can easily drop HST inside the stomach, it will still heal the ghosts if they are close enough.

      In our guild we split it up in between classes and try to prevent all healers running at the same time, due to risk of raid getting wiped out when no healer can stand and guarantee their safety. To pick up the rest we generally use tanks, they aren’t contributing that much on damage and having healers run around like headless chicken won’t do any good.
      Get a designated spot for setting up the souls, it will make it a far simpler task to keep track of people for those dealing with them. I can see that you have a lot of deaths due to this alone (Digest) and I would understand that as dps not being in complete control of these.

      Okay now let’s go through it (Looking at the longer pulls 4+ minutes).

      Healing Surge is wayy out of control, and is still on the higher end in the new log

      Checking for Riptide usage you take the duration of the encounter in seconds and divide it by the amounts of riptides casted. Like for HST it will give the average time between casts which is roughly 6.6 seconds, which is good. (Simply compare the result with the cooldown of the spell and make sure it doesn’t deviate too much)

      Healing Stream Totem:
      You are definitely right that your HST use is lacking a little bit, you have an average of 40.5 seconds in between the uses. Should ideally be within a second or two of the cooldown.

      Elemental Blast:
      You can choose to do as for Riptide and HST or you can go and look for the uptime of the spirit buff (simply go to buffs and look for Elemental Blast: Spirit). The uptime will depends slightly on your casting speed but with a standard 2 second cast time the highest uptime you can have is 57% (You have 24% as your highest).
      This being said Elemental Blast is highly dependant on whether or not you really need the mana. Casting it is convenient because it will allow for more spamming of expensive spells, but for shorter fights it’s just barely worth it. To really see how it can affect you, you need to look at the resources and how mana fluctuates for you.

      Healing Rain:
      For a fight like Gorefiend I feel that you could use this more and it will give you an alternative to casting Healing Surge. At least make sure that it is always up when feast is running, it might not be worth casting outside of it.

      For pure output purposes it might not always be the best idea to cast your HTT or Ascendance right when entering Feasts, the priest will most like have just shielded the entire raid and that players haven’t dropped down enough for Mastery to kick in with some ‘umph’. On the older pulls you have HTT healing roughly the same as Ascendance, which should rarely happen. I can see that cooldowns overlap sometimes, it will only hurt all of you when doing so.

      Onto mobility, this is slightly sparse (like you mentioned yourself).

      Unleash Life:
      Over the course of the 7 fights all being 4+ minutes long you casted UL 5 times in total. In my opinion this is very low, I can’t imagine not needing to cast it more than a single time on a pull on this boss. I would use it every time I got Doom and had to run to the wall; every time I got Death and had to run to designated stack point; when running between spirits inside stomach or when running out to soak a ghost during Feast. At least you cast it for the purpose of moving around.

      The newer logs did show some improvement, on the pulls I looked at you used it more frequently.

      Spiritwalker’s Grace:
      Pretty much the same case as for Unleash Life. You used it a single time from the logs I looked at, it should and could be used more frequently. This being supported further by the fact that you’re using the glyph to reduce its cooldown. It can be used for the same cases mentioned for UL, running back to the group after deploying Doom or when getting a spirit to clear debuff. (still a bit lacking on the newer logs too)
      I kinda understand, I haven’t personally been raiding that much the past couple of months so my routine is lacking a little bit.

      If you need any more help just ask away!

    • #1973

      Thank you so much for taking the time to review these, Keehn 🙂

      Hopefully I will get back into the swing of things, and pick up the slack in those areas.

      I did make the suggestion to my raid to move my Cd’s towards the end of feast – because they took ring off my CD and gave it to the holy pally to use at the end since we were lacking heals near the end of feast. I felt it would have made more sense to move me to the last half of feast healing CD’s since I have the stronger CD, especially when paired with the ring. But they did not take my suggestion.

      I think my performance also suffers because I get flustered trying to call stuff out (like spirits not getting soaked on feast) and then all logic (like wiser mobility decisions) go out the window and I blow stuff too early and ghost wolf around like a tard, hollering in mumble about this or that. >_< lol. It helps hearing it from someone else, so I can stop making excuses and get on the ball 🙂

      Thanks again! So much!

    • #2038

      Yay we killed Gore.

      Ok Bossman, (:P) Let’s see if I can do this now….

      HST: I got 13 casts out of the 14 that I could have had.

      RT: I cast 65 times when I could have cast 70.

      Healing Surge: Ok so, I realized when I go into the stomach, I spam healing surge the entire time down there (throwing riptide to keep up Tidal waves) . Unless the pally goes down with me, I barely get them all up to 90% before they zone out.

      Healing Rain: 11 casts – I tried to keep it up during the entire feast – a couple of times, I left it off cd for like 5-6 sec when I went out to soak my spirit and then had to spam a couple things before I could get it back down.

      SWG: 3 casts – still need some more work here, but I really felt like I got lucky on movement often, being close to where I needed to go already.

      UL: 9 casts – a lot better but still could get more in. Pretty sure I used it every time I had doom well or shared fate, and when going in the stomach.

      EB: 19 casts – I did feel like I was short mana on this towards the end of feast. I can’t seem to find where I see what pots I got in. I tried to regularly drink pot after feast.

      HTT: I started my Cd’s with about 20 seconds left on feast, and used ring. I sometimes had to use ascendance near the beginning of feast because health was dropping too low for my comfort level and I was out grabbing my spirit.

      … Off topic…… Reading Dorelei’s review of the Alpha builds was super exciting and I found myself wishing I could already have some stuff … WTB artifact Revival now :P.

      I bet you guys are off prancing around over there right now …. 😛

      Anyway…. I’m working on it…. I think overall using SWG more often and getting more EB in there is where I should really focus – Don’t ya think? The Healing surge is all but 9 cast in the stomach (, so maybe if you have any suggestions on how I can better heal those up faster. I typically, get RT and UL off right before I go in so I have those buffs up when I zone in, then I cast a couple surges and then a riptide and I try to always get the lowest health ones – like up to 50-60% and move to the next one so I can sneak all the lower health for my mastery… then I go back and heal them up as much more as I can before they leave.

      I could probably plan my SLT a little better. I should have used projection to throw it into the raid when I was out grabbing my spirit when they dropped low – I popped SWG and Ascend instead.

      Anyway…. I know you are probably off enjoying alpha, and you’ve already gone through my stuff a lot, so no need to have to do it all over again (unless you really want to! :P). I was just excited to improve a bit, and hope to continue to do even better.

      Happy Alpha’ing! 🙂

      (Edit: OMG you guys added edit option! Be still my heart!)

    • #2052

      Grats with the kill 🙂

      I have to agree it looks a lot better! And now you know how to look over logs, although you can always ask in the future since our playstyle will change a lot come Legion.

      Uptimes of the different spells are great. The use of SWG and UL really depends on how often you’re afflicted with Doom, Death or have to soak a spirit. I noticed that you used UL twice within a second of each other, most likely due to the nature of spamming abilities when you want to get them off. (This is partly why I prefer AS over Echo, you will never accidentally use both charges of Riptide or UL by spamming it). There is one of the UL casts where you stand still after casting it.

      EB will vary alot from fight to fight and the duration of the encounter. On a fight like Gorefiend it’s essential that you get a lot of EB casts off, but then on fights like Hellfire Assault, Kormrok, Reaver it is more or less redundant since the fights are over before they start, allowing for mindless spamming without any real danger of ooming.

      I use Ascendance right when entering Feast too to stabilize the situation (during progress at least)

      The way you handle spirits is how every shaman should, just cast Healing Surge (with Tidal Wave running) on the lowest health ones to have the highest potency, when running between the spirits is the best time to refresh Tidal Waves and it might be an idea to pop UL if you have to run before you’re able to reach the next spirit (Will make the first Healing Surge do massive healing). This being said if you get in with a holy paladin, he should pop wings in there and this will make him able to solo the stomach. If the dps has enough control they should be able to free whatever healer is paired with a paladin in order to maximize healing outside of stomach too.
      I went more ‘brute force’ on the spirits during progress and ran with Unleashed Fury (which made mana uncomfortably tight), but it allowed me to take care of the spirits alone during progress, we lacked a lot of gear on healers. This is not recommended though.

      I guess that’s what I had to say, good luck with your progress! 😀

    • #2113

      Thanks Keehn! You’re the best!

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